FunToDo Industrial Blend

JHSJHS Member, Backers
edited October 2015 in Prints and Samples
So I just had a bit of time to test out my Draken using some black FTD Industrial Blend. This was the first time that I've used any type of 3D printer as I've only previously had parts printed through a friend using his FDM machine... so I guess it was a sort of familiarisation print. Overall I found it to be quite simple once I ran through the steps and watched some videos about the DLP printing process. I realised early in the print that the projector was probably not aiming square on at the vat as I hadn't adjusted this but I let the print run anyway. As a result the print came out with a slight distortion (the top section came out with approx. 0.4mm variance in diameter).

The object I printed was the 50% scaled rook that @sbryan uploaded to GitHub.

Some observations:
  • Loud Draken is loud.
  • Projector was in the 3rd slot, and was set accordingly in CW.
  • Left everything in their default settings such as the 50 micron layer height, 6.5 sec exposure times, anti-aliasing and the projector brightness was not adjusted.
  • I'm not sure what to make of it as it was my first time doing this, but it looks like I need to lower the brightness of the projector to prevent the areas that aren't meant to cure from being exposed.
  • Considering that it was most likely over-exposed, the details came out somewhat muddy (especially the "undercut" section that transitions from the middle to the wider top section). It doesn't look too bad unless you are very close to it though ;))
  • The circular recess at the base has a strange amorphous surface instead of being flat. My guess is that some resin got trapped between the flat surface and the print bed and slowly cured as light bled through in subsequent layers? Or maybe because it didn't have any supports to keep it from from deforming when the tilt action happened.
  • The spiral and stars came out very nicely, as did the flat surfaces on the top.
Overall I'm very happy with the result and I'm itching to dial in the machine and my brain properly so I can get some good results.



  • neokiller62neokiller62 Member, Backers
    Dear JHS,

    Thank you for sharing your preset with FTD Industrial Blend.
    Could you share bottom layers numbers and bottom layer time too?

    I try your settings and all my object is printed on the VAT...

  • rkundlarkundla Member, Moderator, Backers, Ultimate Backer
    @neokiller62 a good way to help narrow down on those settings is to take something like the 10 mm calibration cube and scale it down in the Z axis so it is only 6 slices thick. It shouldn't take too long to print and it will make it easy to test your settings.

    Unfortunately I do not have any settings for the FTD Industrial Black, but here are some generic thoughts you might find useful on print failures.

    The biggest issues with it sticking to the vat and not the plate are as follows in no particular order:

    1) Insufficient bottom layer cure time
    - The resin hasn't cured enough to the plate surface to hold against the peel action on the vat surface.

    2) Contaminated plate surface
    - Sometimes old resins and oils interfere, clean with isopropyl alcohol and then a clean water rinse.

    3) Insufficiently mixed resin
    - Pretty self-explanatory, mix resin well for at least 20 seconds or more based on mfg recommendations.

    4) Not properly configured build plate
    - I add up to 30 additional seconds to by start of build to allow me to calibrate the build plate each time I print.
    - Attach ball mount to arm, loosen the knob on the ball mount, loosen arm handle so everything can rotate loosely. Start the print and the plate goes to the vat. When the arm stops, press down on the black round handle multiple times to seat the plate on the vat while trying to keep the plate position aligned with the vat.Tighten down the black handle, then while holding the ball mount in place, tighten down the ball mount knob.

    5) Uneven build plate surface relative to vat surface
    - If there are pockets of print surface not flush to the vat, this could cause localized areas of unattached resin, I use medium grit emery paper on a flat surface (like a concrete slab) to true the build plate. You will see the high and low areas once you rub the plate over the emery paper - you want to level those points the best you can for a flat surface.
    - The other option is to overcure the resin to deal with that, but not all resins will respond the same to overcure.

    6) Damage to vat surface
    - Removing stuck resin can damage the FEP surface, causing potential problems with your print. You may need to remove the FEP and put a new layer down, or relocate your print to another section of the build area.

    7) Projector lamp cold spot at print location
    - The Acer can have some hot spots where it gets more light than other areas. On my projector, the right side of the build area gives off higher UV than the left or the middle. I have to adjust my settings appropriately to try to get as much functional build area as I can.

    If you see the print coming off part way, then you need more raft in order to overcome the suction forces during the peel. Enlarge the raft in the X and Y directions using the scale functions of CW.

    Use the slow peel techniques shown in previous messages to help lessen the amount of force applied to the resin during the peel. If you can get sufficient cure against the build plate, this can be very helpful for successful printing.

    I am sure what you are experiencing is one or more of the following. I hope it gives you some tips on how to deal with it.

  • CopterlabCopterlab Member, Backers
    @rkundla Thank you so much for your reply.
    I've bought another VAT and it prints correctly now.

    Another problem:
    with Meshmixer, i used to add 5mm support layer, it works great when only one object is printed but when i try to print several objects, support layer and some first object layers are eaten by printer

    Here is slicer view


    Here is result


  • rkundlarkundla Member, Moderator, Backers, Ultimate Backer
    @Copterlab when you slice the models and preview them, do you see all the layers you would expect to see?

    The next thing to try is with the front off, watch the initial layers to see if they project okay.

    Looking at your photo, it is like the lower layers are completely missing. Did the shutter open up? Is your Creation Workshop displaying those first layers in white and not blue or some other color?

    Very strange...
  • CopterlabCopterlab Member, Backers
    @rkundla Shutter open up at the first DLP display. I have checked with CW : first layers are created and displayed.
    Color is white

    I printed a cube of 10mm x 10mm x 10mm
    Result dimensions are X: 9mm Y: 9.5mm Z: 7mm

    Perhaps i need to use your custom shutter gcode?
  • rkundlarkundla Member, Moderator, Backers, Ultimate Backer
    edited June 2016

    The Z dimension was only 7 mm huh? That is a problem. Can you see the stepper motor moving up during those first three millimeters? It is like it is stuck in place and then all of a sudden starts moving. :-(

    What are the following variables?

    - Layer Thickness
    - # bottom layers
    - bottom layer exposure duration
    - regular layer exposure duration

    Also, what is your lift height between layers? Do you see the plate lift up and go back down each layer at the very beginning of the print?

  • neokiller62neokiller62 Member, Backers

    Hi Ron,

    Yes i can ball screw moving during all the printer process, i confirm the plate is moving at the very beginning of the print.

    Please find my complete setup



  • rkundlarkundla Member, Moderator, Backers, Ultimate Backer
    @neokiller62 are you also @Copterlab

    Is 6 seconds enough to get a good bottom layer if your regular layer height is 6 seconds? If it works for a single item though... I assume you have it in the center since that is where CW places new objects.

    The only thing I can think of doing is run that print but only let it go for six layers to get the bottom exposure done and stop it. Lift the plate and see if anything shows up. If not, try increasing the exposure to 10 seconds for the bottom and see if that changes.

    The assumption is that light energy is uniform across the whole plate, but if for some reason, the more items on the screen, the less light energy (a projector power saving setting perhaps?) and it takes a while for it to take hold, which if you loose 3 mm is a pretty large gap. I am guessing, but it is all I have to go on right now.

    The other test would be to reduce the number of items and keep trying to print until it finally works. That might provide some valuable information.
  • neokiller62neokiller62 Member, Backers
    @rkundla Hi Ron, finally i've got it!!

    My recipe is:
    5 mm for support height
    6 seconds is the maximum, if i 3d print at 6,5 seconds, i can't remove anything from plate!!
    Z lift distance 3mm
    And don't use any servo tilt... This is definitely a gatget for me

    Here is the result

  • rkundlarkundla Member, Moderator, Backers, Ultimate Backer
    Nice! Will that work for the multiple objects? 

    No tilt? Does the peel w/o tilt seem violent? I'd imagine it would make a lot of noise as it rips off the vat. :p
  • robjos1robjos1 Member, Backers
    Im Interested to know why the lack of tilt peel too. I have some IB resin here and shall test tomorrow with and without tilt
  • robjos1robjos1 Member, Backers
    edited August 2016
    Industrial blend is excellent, lots tougher than makerjuice standard. I used the same settings except 6500 for the base exposure and parts stay nicely attached to the build plate. I also run with the stepped peel and although each cycle takes longer speed is not important for me as i print overnight. I am getting around 90mins per inch Z print speed.

    The stepped peel works beautifully with a tank making a satisfying peeling sound (using quieter high quality servos) as it moves off the high exposure bottom layers. Resolution is decent though maybe not as good as some other resins though I may not have the projector focus dialed in perfectly (running slot 5). However dimensional accuracy is excellent, after a calibration cube im now getting +/- 0.02mm over 20mm which is pretty great. Horizontal surfaces also have a beautiful gloss to the cure and vertical ones print with no ridging/wobble and a matte sheen. I am just running a 3d benchy at the moment and shall post shortly. The Ford V6 engine block print is a bit 'melty' on the shallow top surfaces and i think this is due to some internal cavities in the stl leaking and hardening on the surface.


  • rkundlarkundla Member, Moderator, Backers, Ultimate Backer
    Nice prints Rob!

    It is good to see smooth surfaces and that the stepped peel is helping you out. I find there are times where I can use a fast peel, or need the slow peel. With the flexible vat, the option for just pulling off the surface without a peel works well sometimes too.

    I do find that if my FEP gets marred up too much on the flexible, prints will start to fail and fail to stick to the plate. It only takes me about 10 minutes to swap out the film and I am ready to go to the next print!
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